《與Picton辯：「從阿扁屁策略背後層層的用心」說起》(下)

ckin章鍵

215 回應本主題
作者: picton(#217)(834..001)
留言時間：2003/12/17 21:43 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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英哥兄：

多謝來打圓場，其實我是沒有生氣的，反而覺得詼諧。這位ckin兄實在太當真了，當真得有點可愛，有時我是「逗」他的。因為太當真的人，總會讓我想要「逗逗」，不覺得應該像其他的欄那麼正經八百。眾網友應知我少在他欄出現，所以不識者居多。這回只是慕boris的風采進來，順便「炒作」的，沒想到有此一遭。

我因為時間有限，不可能隨時巴著螢幕，所以都是來去匆匆，因此瀏覽多於細讀，ckin兄我完全初識，所以當他說自己是「鬥口」專家時，我以為他承受力很強，所以玩興一高，就抓著他搖搖擺擺，不想他居然抓狂了，讓我好生意外。既然如此，我也就退票不玩了。

Ckin兄：在此受小弟一拜，此欄眾友生輝，後勢尚有可期，咱們的遊戲可以退位了，您就和boris繼續擺茶吧，我先走一步。

張泰山兄：失敬失敬，網上果然臥虎藏龍，讓小弟我不得不感汗顏。咱們下回有空談，有機會可至舍下小欄一敘。

ckin章鍵

219 回應本主題
作者: 俠客行(#221)(667..923)
留言時間：2003/12/18 00:29 Top 上一篇 下一篇

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俠客行兄來捧場，我卻掃興地提出「文學政治」與「政治文學」之分別。
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致ckin
文學政治一語我覺得是涵義不明
你的解釋也是令人一新耳目
雖有部分不認同你的說法
但想必你不會介意

ckin章鍵

221 回應本主題
作者: ckin(#223)(218..851)
留言時間：2003/12/18 01:18 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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俠兄：
我怎會介意？見賢思齊嘛！越多看法越好。結論不同無壞，表示這個問題可探討下去。

我的解釋令人一新耳目？我以為這是常識。(不是矯情)

「文學政治」的定位是政治。
「政治文學」的定位是文學。

(因有事忙，不能多談)

ckin章鍵

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作者: SLK(#224)(609..653)
留言時間：2003/12/18 01:40 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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The Observer is out of town. Before he left he paid me $20 to write something about the street fight between “picton” and “ckin”. Here’s the scoring statistics. For some reason he told me to use IBM’s Deep Blue 9003 supercomputer for analysis.

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CATEGORY SCORE (picton - ckin)

Column-writing skill: 6 - 8
Writing prolificacy: 3 - 8
Personal profile transparency: 0 - 10
Chinese language skill 9 - 9
English language skill: 3 - 3
Insightfulness into the dirty politics in Taiwan: 5 - 8
Table manners: 2 - 3
Organization in thought flow: 6 - 3
Consistency in reasoning: 3 - 6
Literature ethic: 4 - 7
Real beef inside: 4 - 8
Persuasiveness: 4 - 8
Being able to get nasty: 9 - 9
Poison applied in lashing out against each other: 9 - 9
Friendliness: 2 - 5
Ability to keep cool: 0 - 1
Degree of ego getting bruised: 10 - 8
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Computer’s observation on the whole game: 八風吹不動, 一屁打過江.

Computer’s observation on “ckin”: Wasting too much time on fixing a small potato.

Computer’s observation on “picton”: Excellent potential in becoming A-Bien’s right-hand man.

Computer’s note on why their English fluency is poor: Both got a terrible English name. “picton” sounds like pecan, and “ckin” looks like chicken.

Computer’s advice to both gentlemen (actually not very gentle): Ignore each other. It’s just a stupid word game.

Computer’s unsolved issue: Computer easily identified “ckin” as blue, or close to blue, but still can’t figure the true color of “picton”.

Computer's final word: He who outlives his enemies is the clear winner.

ckin章鍵

223 回應本主題
作者: ckin(#225)(218..437)
留言時間：2003/12/18 02:22 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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#225

樹欲靜而風不息。何物「IBM’s Deep Blue 9003 supercomputer for analysis」摃上我的「街戰」了？

鄙人既驚且喜，廿多年來沒有被人評比過。真有點喜劇味道。

多謝SLK提供(我只代表自己的部份)。

我的英文水準(不是懦夫)只看懂約75%，幾個生字懶得去翻字典。
SLK能否將內容翻成中文？(或叫其他人幫忙)

(怎會有一句中文出現的？不是你們假借電腦「玩人」吧？)

ckin章鍵

224 回應本主題
作者: SLK(#226)(609..653)
留言時間：2003/12/18 03:29 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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ckin 老大,

I appreciate your 坦率 very much.

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Prolificacy 多產度
Personal profile transparency 個人資料透明度
Insightfulness 洞燭力
literature ethic 文品
Persuasiveness 說服力
Real beef inside 牛肉在那裡
Being able to get nasty 陪對方玩陰的能力
Degree of ego getting bruised 自尊受損度
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抱歉, 我的注音符號中文輸入很慢, 不能多效勞. Observer 整天沒事幹, 當可代勞. Wahaha...

ckin章鍵

225 回應本主題
作者: 俠客行(#227)(667..923)
留言時間：2003/12/18 03:47 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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Organization in thought flow: 6 - 3
關於這點我要反對一下
此即電腦誤差值

ckin章鍵

回應本主題
作者: ckin(#233)(610..458)
留言時間：2003/12/18 14:00 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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#227

用電腦代替人工作?出笑話的電影看過很多。
大慨沒有人會相信電腦就兩造爭論者的背景，動機，功力，結果能作出一個客觀的評比來。

「IBM深藍9003」的示範只供一哂。有喜劇效果，無實際效果。(假定「輸入者」不動手腳，百分百通過電腦)

比方，用爭論者兩人的網名來衡量二人的「英文語言技巧」(還技巧呢！)的程度。是荒天下大謬的事。我的根本不是名字，是代號。深藍竟不知，憑什麼analysis人家？至於將人家代號延伸解譯為懦夫，對論者是一種侮辱。電腦邏輯不清，卻有心機逗人，像話嗎？

「深藍」留意到我在內文中用了多少個英文單字嗎？不要誤會，我不是說我英文好，只想揭發「深藍」是個瞎子。又或者「輸入者」懶惰，只攻一點，不及其餘。遂陷電腦於不義。

兩造根本不具備可評比性。比如二人身份的顯露，就不是「個人資料透明度」所能夠表達的，是「肯不肯」的問題，不是「有沒有，有多少的」的問題。不是程度問題，是個人作風問題。

然而，「IBM深藍9003」的示範還是蠻有趣的，尤其是定項(設定項目)方面，是我想像不到的，有進入醫療室，讓醫具檢視自己一樣。

「Being able to get nasty 陪對方玩陰的能力」最出色(SLK的翻譯尤佳)。十分「台灣味」，見不到「IBM味」。我想不到會是平手，「輸入者」無判斷力啊！

「Insightfulness into the dirty politics in Taiwan對台灣骯髒政治的洞悉力」這一項命名也不錯，但這是「輸入者」槓上開花娛人之作。我們根本沒有碰這個問題。

「Degree of ego getting bruised自尊受損度(SLK譯)」這一句我實在不懂，是 詞抑或是眨詞呢？

對這份報告我是持懷疑態度的。
看看諸種Computer’s observation的「人話」：

「Excellent potential in becoming A-Bien’s right-hand man可成為阿扁左右手的優良潛質」，夠妙吧，但啟人疑竇。(對方可昇官發財，那我是什麼？)，暴露了「非電腦」痕跡。

「八風吹不動, 一屁打過江」，「深藍」能說出這話？

還勸喻二人呢：Ignore each other. It’s just a stupid word game.，這一句「人話」的設定我有意見。Ignore應作「蔑視」解吧，據下文意思(「這只是無聊的文字鬥咀而己」)，似用Let go為宜。

深藍竟有解決不了的問題：“ckin” as blue, or close to blue, but still can’t figure the true color of “picton”.電腦如此愚笨，令人驚嘆。

我們街戰，我欲論理，但起因顯然是藍綠之爭。人家聞「讚許信良(許氏比照陳陳文茜的藍化)」而跳，何來can’t figure呢？Observer跑那裏去了？不要糟質電腦！

末了，「深藍」像一個中國老頭，鄉愿起來(或其他網友稱的中庸)：He who outlives his enemies is the clear winner！

好像英哥般的打圓場味道太濃！

Anyway，謝了！感謝SLK拍檔「深藍」這樣「娛樂」我。(其他人怎樣想則不知道)

ckin章鍵

232 回應本主題
作者: ckin(#234)(610..458)
留言時間：2003/12/18 14:09 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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P.S：

SLK，不要稱我老大，不是怕被人砍，而是肉麻。直呼網名就好！

ckin章鍵

237 回應本主題
作者: SLK(#240)(609..653)
留言時間：2003/12/19 01:51 Top 上一篇 下一篇 Bottom

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ckin 老大 (Everybody is a 老大 here):

Regarding the "ckin looks like chicken", the computer was trying to mimic a Jay Leno's type of joke. No offense. My apology. Pure joking. Nobody will ever question ckin's fighting instinct.

On the "personal profile transparency", agree, it should be termed "Willingness to disclose personal background information". Computer input error!

What do you mean you're not satisfied with a tie on the "ability to get nasty" here? Do you mean you scored higher on this one? You mean you can get nastier than picton? :-)

It's not whether you "touched" the "insightfulness" issue or not. It's the quality and rationale revealed through the postings.

Speaking of a bruised ego, everybody has some measures of ego. It can be good or bad. Some are easily agitated - which is good for their heart, some are slow to react. Some are very sensitive, while others can take everything with a smile and "let go". It's really up to everyone on how to deal with the ego within.

"對方可昇官發財，那我是什麼？"

You're right. Your opponent can climb the 昇官發財 ladder, but only for 3 more months. And you Sir, got a clear conscience you can sleep with.

"「八風吹不動, 一屁打過江」，「深藍」能說出這話？"

The other day I inputted some Su Dong-Pou's data into Deep Blue's memory. Can't blame him for that.

Ignore應作「蔑視」解吧.

SLK: "Ignore" does not mean "to despise". But of course one can always ignore someone else with whatever reason he's got, including a feeling of contempt toward the other guy. To "let go of each other" is not what I meant, although it is a better solution to the wrangling situation between you two. A friendly reminder here: to let go of someone implies that you are willing to set aside all the differences with the one you're at odds with, as if nothing ever happened. No more hard feeling toward each other. Nothing but a "deep blue sky" between you two. :-)

On picton's true color, Deep Blue was lying. He wants picton to become blue one day under you influence. Wahaha..haha..

And about this "鄉愿" stuff, look around this place, dear ckin. Do you see a shadow of "picton"? So who is outliving whom? Got it?

Furthermore, how can the Deep Blue be a fence-sitting "鄉愿" when its name is Deep "BLUE" (not Deep Green)?

"感謝SLK拍檔「深藍」這樣「娛樂」我"

Well, I am glad I can entertain you somewhat, but it was meant to tone down the highly explosive atmosphere in this place. We all need a break, don't we?

Have fun and see you around.